The TV comic turned maverick Ukrainian leader on Putin, power and Trumps impeachment
What's the distinctions between playing a chairwoman on screen and represent one in real life? Not much, according to Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the man who's done both.
“It's very similar,” he says, his compact frame engulfed by a green leather armchair in his opulent presidential office. Then he alters his intellect: in fact, the real job lasts a whole five years, and comes with far greater challenges than can fit into one season of a television show.” It's true there are more problems. They are catastrophic. They seem, I'm sorry to say, like zits on an 18 -year-old kid. You don't know where they will pop up, or when .” The 42 -year-old speaks in his native Russian, his expressive face switching from boyish amusement to tortured concern in a flash.
The latest problem is coronavirus. Angry villagers, scared their hospital is hosting returnees from China, have attacked the bus transporting them. The day before we gratify, Zelenskiy dispatched his health minister to join the evacuees in quarantine, as proof they pose no threat.” It was her choice, but I indicated it ,” he says, chuckling in a way that implies he dedicated her little alternative.
It is exactly the kind of impetuous decision his television alter ego might have taken. In the Ukrainian series Servant Of The People, Zelenskiy plays an everyman with no political experience who is elevated to the country's presidency. Last April, a couple of weeks after the season three finale aired, he took 73% of the vote in the country's actual general elections. In May, he started the job for real. In an era of outsider electoral successes, Zelenskiy's has been perhaps the most unlikely of them all.
Running a country of 42 million people that in the past few years has watched a revolution, a land-grab by Vladimir Putin and an ongoing war in its eastern regions was not going to be an easy chore, especially for a political novice. But Zelenskiy's first real-life presidential season has thrown up one plotline that even his show's scriptwriters might have disposed as implausible, involving another unlikely president, from across the Atlantic.
After decades in which US legislators have chastised Ukraine for its venal politics, it's ironic that an American president should try to corrupt his Ukrainian counterpart. Donald Trump wanted one thing from Zelenskiy: an investigation into the Ukrainian business dealings of Hunter Biden, son of Joe – his potential 2020 presidential opponent. Until he complied, Trump made it clear through aides that he would withhold $391 m( PS303m) in military aid, along with Zelenskiy's chance of a coveted White House visit. Trump's interactions with Zelenskiy were at the crux of his impeachment trial in January, with the most damning proof released by Trump himself: a memorandum of a 25 July call between the leaders. In it, Zelenskiy flatters Trump, while finely trying not to enter into a criminal conspiracy with him:” You are a great teacher for us ,” he says, in one of several passages it is hard to read without wincing. Trump, meanwhile, underlines how much the US will do for Ukraine, if merely Zelenskiy will order a probe into Hunter Biden.
His political opponents seized on his fawning tone and he was even dubbed” Monica Zelenskiy “.” You is quite right. Not only 100%, but actually 1,000% ,” he says when Trump claims Angela Merkel “doesn't do anything” for Ukraine( in fact, the EU is its largest financial donor ). But the scandal resonated more aloud in the US; with Russia-backed troops still in the east of the country, most Ukrainians are sympathetic to maintaining US support at almost any cost.
Zelenskiy seemed rattled when Trump released the memoranda simply hours before the twoheld an awkward press conference at the UN last September. Today, he seems more comfy discussing the exchange, though he says he is tired of the impeachment tale predominating every dialogue about Ukraine.” I suppose Ukraine has passed through this story proudly, with its head raised high ,” he says. But he has still not received the promised White House invitation, and it's clear this is an irritation.” I was told it's being prepared. It's hard for me to hear that. I am a person who works to deadlines. Our diplomats are discussing it with American envoys. I would like us to have a fruitful session .”
But the humiliations have maintained coming. In late January, two days before secretary of state Mike Pompeo was due to travel to Kyiv in a show of US support, he somewhat undermined the message by snapping at a reporter: ” Do you think Americans care about Ukraine ?” and asking her to point to it on a map, as if it were an obscure principality rather than the biggest country in Europe. When they met, Zelenskiy says, Pompeo insisted “hes been” misquoted. He says he is” grateful to the US, because actually both political parties supporting us “. But what about the president?
Zelenskiy pauses and chuckles. He draws another breath before dedicating a long, convoluted and largely meaningless answer about the overwhelming US support he feels, from the president down. There's not much else he can say. Trump is known to be vindictive, and could win another four years inNovember. On the other hand, if Zelenskiy comes out in full-blooded support, he will appear a buffoon if a Democrat wins the White House. The best option, it seems, is to say nothing.
” With some issues, I don't really understand how to help journalists. When it comes to matters of state, I'll happily talk to you when my five years are up and tell you lots of things I can't now. But these are state secrets .”
After 10 months in office, Zelenskiy is desperate to move the conversation on from the impeachment saga. He has been approved by a rare interview in the hope that he can ” alteration the context”- to his focus on making a deal with Putin to end the war, and on further integration with Europe. He speaks passionately and with much gesturing, deploying the easy charm that helped him win the presidency. His future success will depend on whether he can use it to good impact on the European leaders who are his best hope of escaping his unenviable position, stuck between Trump and Putin.
In the aftermath of his election victory, Zelenskiy promised voters he would “stay a human being” and not become a typical legislator. He claims to have succeeded so far, but our surroundings tell a different story. His cavernous office is done out with gilded stucco ceilings, chandeliers and ruched curtains that cascade down long windows. So far, so very presidential. But the handshakes are hardly over before Zelenskiy tells us how ill at ease he is.” I can't even sit here, it's awful ,” he says, pointing to the wooden desk laden with malachite adornments and a bank of secure telephones.” Previous dwellers felt very at home in these surroundings, I guess ,” he says; they stimulate him feel” horribly uncomfortable “.
The most recent redevelopments were done by president Viktor Yanukovych, whose obscene corruption and cosying up to Russia prompted the 2014 Maidan revolution. We satisfy six years to the day since Yanukovych fled the building during bloody clashes between riot police and protesters in central Kyiv, defining in develop the Russian annexation of Crimea and military incursion into eastern Ukraine.
Initially, Zelenskiy promised he would move the presidential office, but he has now decided the cost to the taxpayer would be prohibitive:” And I can't do a renovation, because it's a historic building, so it would be illegal .” But it is noticeable he has not constructed even small change, such as replacing the furniture or removing the kitsch bronze figurines. Maybe he needs something to complain about. Or maybe the trappings of power are proving seductive.
” It's true, you do start getting be applicable to it .” He laughs.
Volodymyr Zelenskiy was born in 1978, into a Jewish Ukrainian family in Kryvyi Rih, an industrial city in the south-east of Soviet Ukraine, dotted with mines and blast furnaces. It was a tough place to grow up , notorious for gangs of youths opposing to control different neighbourhoods in the years after the Soviet collapse.
Zelenskiy's way out came through comedy. A natural musician, he organised a tight-knit group of friends from high school and law school into a comedy troupe named Kvartal 95, after the neighbourhood in which they grew up. By the mid-2 000 s, the troupe had moved to Kyiv and were seeming regularly on Ukrainian television. Recently, Zelenskiy has brought in some of them as key consultants.” I have a few people who work with me who have been my friends for a long time … They have no relation to business, or to the budget ,” he says, insisting the appointments are about personal trust , not fiscal cronyism.
Zelenskiy's humour tended toward the slapstick: his audiences favor Benny Hill to Monty Python, he has said. In one skit, he and a fellow performer appear to play Chopsticks on the piano utilizing only their penis. But there were also more pointed, political sketches, mocking Ukraine's corrupt officials and oligarchs. He came to know some of his targets personally, as “hes taking” on more run as a television and film producer, bringing him wealth and connections among the elites. Sometimes this get him into trouble, if a sketch cut too deeply. Occasionally, the group poked fun at the authoritarianism of Ukraine's big neighbour. In a skit to coincide with a Russian presidential election, Zelenskiy and his friends played the returning policemen at a local polling stations, suicidal because they have accidentally failed to secure a Putin victory in their district.
Servant Of The People, a sharp-edged comedy, first aired in 2015. Zelenskiy starrings as high-school teacher Vasyl Holoborodko, whose classroom denunciation against corruption is filmed by a pupil and posted online, propelling him to the presidency after the post runs viral. Think Yes Minister traversed with House Of Cards, transposed on to the grimly cynical world of post-Soviet politics. The popularity of the prove prompted a question, backed up by favourable polling numbers: what if Zelenskiy operated for office in real life? In the final moments of 2018, on his new year television show, he has declared that he would.
He operated a ludicrous, postmodern campaign, the centrepiece of which was a nationwide comedy tour that included video clips of his on-screen president. Mainly, he wanted to make the audience laugh. One Ukrainians-on-holiday sketch poked fun at a tourist who spends his vacation watching movies on a bus.” But where did you stop ?” he is asked.” Somewhere around Terminator 2 ,” comes the response.
Zelenskiy was up against the incumbent, Petro Poroshenko, a billionaire chocolate tycoon who had won the presidency a few months after the Maidan revolution. While Poroshenko had brought some reform, he had failed to deliver on his key promise to end corruption. Lagging in the polls, he was flummoxed by Zelenskiy's rebel campaign, and tried to paint his adversary as a man who would appease Putin over the war. Meanwhile Zelenskiy largely avoided debate, running a populist campaign- the people against the old elites- but without the usual populist tactic of sowing anger and division. Instead, he made vague talk of unification, fighting corruption and ending the war, with few specifics.
When he did agree to a debate, he made it conditional on Poroshenko accepting a situate of absurd words: it would take place on the pitch at Kyiv's 70,000 -seater Olympic stadium, and Poroshenko would have to take a drug and alcohol exam beforehand, to prove he wasn't high. It wasn't intended as a serious offer, but with nothing to lose, Poroshenko said yes, gamely proving up for blood and urine exams the day before. The debate was loud, confusing and largely senseless- which was how Zelenskiy wanted it. In the stadium, both candidates came across severely, bellowing into microphones; but on television, where it genuinely mattered, Zelenskiy was the clear winner.
The election was an easy win, too. He came first in almost every region- something new for a country that has long been divided on regional and linguistic lines. In the minutes after his crush victory was announced, Zelenskiy strode on to the stage at his campaign headquarters accompanied by the lilting theme tune of Servant Of The People. Nobody quite knew what a Zelenskiy presidency would look like, including the people who had voted for him. But after a two-decade cycle of revolution and disappointment, he had won , not despite his lack of experience but because of it. He called parliamentary elections soon after, announcing that his newly formed party( named the Servant Of The People Party, naturally) would nominate a varied field of candidates, most without political experience. It won more than half the parliamentary seats, dedicating Zelenskiy huge power.
Now that he's in charge, does he regret taunting politicians so mercilessly on his Tv reveal? Zelenskiy smiles.” I understood that, without experienced people it's impossible to run a country. But these people are at middle level. They are the bureaucrats who know where to scurry to, what to do, whom to bring the papers to .”
To manage these bureaucrats, Zelenskiy has enlisted some old friends. Andriy Yermak, the man he entrusted with US negotiations last summertime and recently made his joint chiefs of staff, is a former copyright lawyer. Serhiy Shefir, another presidential aide, is a co-founder of Zelenskiy's production studio. A childhood friend, Ivan Bakanov, has been induced head of the secret services. While Zelenskiy's inner circle do not seem to be seeking personal enrichment, there are legitimate concerns about whether his friends are the best qualified people to run the country.
Alongside these old friends, Zelenskiy put together a cabinet composed largely of well-regarded reformers, and the general feeling in the international community was that his team was doing astonishingly well, against the odds. However, earlier this week, a few days after our interview, he fired most of the government, including the 35 -year-old prime minister( and also the still-quarantined health minister ). The chief prosecutor, seen as a reformer, was also rejected by parliament. The move, which Zelenskiy gave no clue was coming during the interview, has been interpreted as a jolt for genuine reform efforts.
Zelenskiy claimed to us that because he and his circle are demonstrably not on the take, it has become more difficult for anyone else to take a bribe.” The president can't alter the country on his own. But what can he do? He can give an example .”
While Zelenskiy appears to be enjoying himself, he admits the political spotlight has been unwelcome for his family. “It's difficult,” he says.” They don't like my work .” Going out for a dinner has to be cleared with security; taking a nice holiday appears insensitive when his country is at war.
His wife, Olena, is a former writer for Kvartal 95 who, like Zelenskiy, grew up in Kryvyi Rih. He says that while he is used to being in the public eye, she prefers to stay out of the spotlight. His 16 -year-old daughter is the most annoyed by his new job, bristling against the security detail that now follows her everywhere. They try to hide, but she always spots them, her father says.” She's at that age when a person is usually most free ,” he says.” It's unpleasant for her on a human level .” On the other hand, his seven-year-old son is loving it, proudly announcing to anyone who will listen that his father is the president.” I came home the other day and I said,' Why is nobody saying hello to me ?' And I can hear my own voice on the television. It was my speech. And my son says,' Don't disturb us, we're watching the president !'”
Before Trump hijacked the script, the main scoundrel to Zelenskiy's hero was meant to be Putin, who annexed Crimea in 2014 and sent money, men and weapons to fuel a war that has killed 14,000 people so far, many of them civilians. Large-scale fighting was halted in 2015, but regular shelling and fatalities on the frontline have been a way of life ever since. Peace could be achieved, Zelenskiy told voters, only if Kyiv began direct negotiations with the Kremlin. This was a radical departure from Poroshenko's approach and proved popular with a nation suffering from war fatigue- though a loud minority accused Zelenskiy of capitulating to Russia by even proposing talks. But he says he values saving lives over counting territorial gains.” Who is this all being done for? For people. What's the point of returning their respective territories if a million people die ?”
Putin and Zelenskiy met face to face for the first time in December, at a summit in Paris, alongside Emmanuel Macron and Angela Merkel. They chiefly stuck to the technical details of a long-ignored peace treaty, but” there were a few emotional proportions”, Zelenskiy recollects: when Putin complained about radical Ukrainian patriots, he fired back that Russia has radicals, too. Was he able to get through to Putin?” I think he listened to me. I had that feeling. I hope it's not a false feeling .” The talks produced modest results: captive exchanges, an agreement to disengage military forces, and a ceasefire that has not held, with one soldier killed and several injured in a deadly flare-up in recent weeks.
It seems unlikely that Putin will agree to any peace deal remotely acceptable to Ukrainian public opinion, but Zelenskiy says he wants to move fast.” Time is ticking ,” he says, pointing at his watch and announcing a timeframe of a year in which to solve the conflict, so he can focus on other domestic issues.” The government can spend one year on the entire agreement. Then it should be implemented. Any longer is prohibited. If it lasts longer, we need to change the format and choose another strategy ,” he says. It's a dramatic new deadline, but his importance is undercut by a lack of detail.( At times like this, Zelenskiy sounds instead Trumpian .) He declines to say what the fallback strategy might be, and when his press secretary jumps in to clarify that the one-year deadline dates from the December summit, rather than the start of his presidency in May, he replies with a laugh:” I don't know any more .” Thinking on the fly, as he often appears to, he buys himself the extra months: yes, it starts from the summit.
Zelenskiy's aides present this kind of improvisation as part of his charm. In sessions with foreign dignitaries, “theyre saying”, he will read the room and, if he feels he can succeed with a more emotional pitching, discard official briefing notes. And perhaps this might work with Merkel, for one, who reportedly watched clips from Servant Of The People before meeting Zelenskiy.
Convincing Merkel and others of Ukraine's desire for closer integration into Europe is vital, he says.” We need to give people confidence that the European Union is awaiting Ukraine ,” he says. If it takes 20 years, his electorate will lose hope.” People don't really believe in words. Or instead, people believe in terms merely for a stretch of period. Then they start to look for action .” Merkel gets it, he thinks; he also claims to have developed a warm personal relationship with Macron, though he is wary of the French president's recent references to the need for warmer relations with Moscow.
Watching Brexit unfold from Kyiv has been a strange experience, he says- watching a country rush to exit the EU when Ukraine is so keen to join.” It's like having a group of people around a table spending a nice evening together. If person doesn't want to sit at the table, he'll definitely ruin the party ,” he says, warming to his metaphor.” And then there are people standing outside the door, ringing the doorbell, knocking, and they're told through the peephole:' Yes, you're welcome to join but come back next time !' And they're still outside knocking when the party is over .”
He revels in these colorful comparisons, which sometimes take him in the wrong direction. He likens his presidency to being on a boat:” There are holes everywhere, and with your limbs and legs, you are trying to close them up. This is how we're living. We are closing the holes .” When told it sounds like a sinking ship, Zelenskiy seems alarmed, and adds:” But we're not sink !”
When he came to power, western diplomats worried Zelenskiy might be a proxy for Ihor Kolomoisky, a controversial billionaire whose television channel aired his present. Kolomoisky is one of a group of oligarchs who made vast fortunes in the transition from communism, while most Ukrainians remained poor. In recent years, they have rebranded themselves as generous philanthropists, while retaining an outsized influence on the political scene, and are far more deserving of the “oligarch” title than their counterparts in Russia, long since neutered by Putin.
” I want them to have walk-on components , not leading roles ,” Zelenskiy says. Kolomoisky receives no special therapy, he insists, despite their long acquaintance. He dismisses as “inappropriate” the recent purchase of a 14 -bedroom mansion on the French Riviera for EUR2 00 m( PS170m) by Rinat Akhmetov, a businessman whose apartment at One Hyde Park was the most expensive property ever bought in the UK when he bought it in 2011, at PS136m.
Many in Kyiv see Zelenskiy's government reshuffle this week as a sign that the old oligarchic players are reasserting their influence, despite his public claims that it was about speeding up reform. It's certainly true that Ukraine's oligarchs continue to wield tremendous power, and Zelenskiy won't be rid of their machinations simply by asking nicely. His TV president might have ordered them hanged or shot for such lavish expenditure abroad during a time of war, but the real Zelenskiy will have to work with them, asking them to invest at home and fund state projects when asked.
” If we've chosen democracy, of course we can't hang people ,” he says, but a twinkle appears in his eyes.” Although! Sometimes you really want to. And do you know why? Because it would be quicker. Much quicker ,” he says, delivering the line with a comic's timing.
” We are joking ,” says his press secretary, seeming somewhat concerned, from the other side of the table.
” Of course we're joking ,” Zelenskiy says.
In their ill-fated phone call, Zelenskiy thanked Trump for providing him with a model of electoral success.” We use quite a few of your abilities … we wanted to drain the inundate here in my country ,” he says. Is that true, or was he simply following advice that the US president responds well to flattery? He sighs and answers carefully. What Trump showed him, he says, was how an foreigner can win without having to adapt to the supposed rules of the game.” I do not try to play a role. I feel better being myself and said today that I believe. And in this, he actually was an example- of how you can win without using the standard format .”
Zelenskiy believes the era of the political outsider is just starting and his own campaign model could succeed elsewhere.” I am certain it could, especially where people are tired, where they are running like squirrelson a wheel, and there are these long-standing politicians with big financial resources. In these places, where people are searching for a breath of fresh air, it should work .”
It sounds like a clear allusion to Ukraine's neighbour towards the east, and its indefatigable leader. Indeed, during the night of his election, Zelenskiy said he wanted his victory to be an example to the entire post-Soviet region, dominated by tyrants. His success has not gone unnoticed inside Russia, and many have made favourable comparisons with the man in the Kremlin: Zelenskiy walking to his inauguration, high-fiving members of the crowd, versus a lonely Putin in his limousine, gliding through the emptied streets of Moscow to his own ceremony. Zelenskiy's chummy, upbeat new year message to the nation, versus Putin's staid television address. A Russian channel recently started to broadcast Servant Of The People, but rapidly reversed the decision, presumably dreading its message was too subversive.
Zelenskiy did not, in the end, bring down Trump, and he may well not succeed in his plans to remodel Ukraine. Could Zelenskiy's legacy turn out to be piercing Putin's aura of infallibility?” Of course a new president will appear there. Of course it will happen. What kind of president it will be, I don't know ,” he says.” But we can see that all totalitarian regimes end the same way .”
But Putin would never simply give up power to a Zelenskiy figure in Russia. Is he predicting a bloody revolution?” I don't want people to die anywhere ,” he says.” But we should understand that if you keep stiffening the spring, at some phase it will snap .”
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