Washington( CNN) Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani has started saying something interesting — and totally irrational — in interviews this week: That President Donald Trump's decision on whether to sit down with special counsel Robert Mueller depends, at the least in part, on what information the Justice Department hands over in what the President has taken to calling “Spygate.”

Here's BuzzFeed on Giuliani 😀 TAG 2 TTRudy Giuliani says that an ultimate decision won't be made on whether President Donald Trump will sit for an interview with Special Counsel Robert Mueller until “the details of this ‘Spygate' situation” are figured out.

There is no “Spygate.” Not on the basis of the available facts.( Rep. Adam Schiff, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee said this on Thursday after being briefed about the confidential sources by DOJ officials: “Nothing we heard today has changed our view that there is no proof to supporting any allegation that the FBI or any intelligence agency placed a spy in the Trump campaign.”)

To use a trumped-up — ahem — controversy as a negotiating tool for a presidential interview in investigation into the cases in which five people( including Trump's deputy campaign chairman and his national security consultant) have already pleaded guilty is a remarkable move.

The Point: Giuliani continues to go back and forth as to whether Trump will sit down with Mueller. But to use the carrot-and-stick approach to extract supposed information on a conspiracy hypothesi that the President has convinced himself of is a new low.

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